NO ADVERTISING, GOVERNMENT OR CORPORATE FUNDING

  • Latest News
  • Pitch a Story
  • Work with a Journalist
  • Join the Blog Squad
  • Afghanistan
  • Africa
  • Asia
  • Baltimore
  • Canada
  • Egypt
  • Europe
  • Latin America
  • Middle East
  • Russia
  • Economy
  • Environment
  • Health Care
  • Military
  • Occupy
  • Organize This
  • Reality Asserts Itself
  • US Politics
  • Who Supports Assad in Syria?


    Sami Ramadani: Pt 3 The Syrian Civil War and Big Power Rivalry: Assad has a social base of support, but if opposition had not militarized, he would have been pushed out by now -   August 8, 12
    Members don't see ads. If you are a member, and you're seeing this appeal, click here

    Audio

    Share to Facebook Share to Twitter




    I’ve made my way to my current internet haven: The Real News Network (TRNN). - Caroline Lewis
    Log in and tell us why you support TRNN

    Bio

    Sami Ramadani is a senior lecturer in sociology at London Metropolitan University and was a political refugee from Saddam Hussein's regime. He is a frequent contributor to the Guardian and other publications.

    Transcript

    Who Supports Assad in Syria?PAUL JAY, SENIOR EDITOR, TRNN: Welcome to The Real News Network. I'm Paul Jay in Baltimore. And we're continuing our series on, I guess we could say, a modern history of Syria and trying to understand the nature of that very difficult and tragic conflict.

    Joining us again now from London is Sami Ramadani. He's a senior lecturer in sociology at the London Metropolitan University. He was a political refugee from Saddam's regime in Iraq. And he now joins us again from London. Thanks, Sami.

    SAMI RAMADANI, SOCIOLOGY SENIOR LECTURER, LONDON METROPOLITAN UNIVERSITY: You're welcome.

    JAY: So let's pick up the story from who makes up this ruling elite, because one wonders why Assad, like Mubarak was, has not yet been thrown under the bus by the Syrian elite. You would think there would be a deal to be made there where the Syrian elite would say, okay, let's get rid of the Assad family and kind of carry on without them, as they're trying to do in Egypt.

    RAMADANI: Yes, I think this is a very good question. There are two points here, one which has to do with the relative strength of this regime, what sort of social base is it relying on within that strength; and secondly, the nature of the armed opposition, which has fed into that relative strength.

    I'll explain. The Syria regime is—there is an oversimplification as to the nature of this regime. Some say, oh, it's just a few family members of the Assad elite, they belong to a sect called the Alawites, and they rule by brute force. Well, that's an oversimplification. Brute force there is. Repression there is. Brutality there is. Imprisonment there is. Torture there is. But a regime could never survive just by that, especially the Syrian regime.

    In the past few decades, and especially in the last 10 to 15 years, the Syrian regime has succeeded in spreading its social base. There is an elite which is around the Armed Forces and the security forces. There is an elite which is around the merchant classes of Aleppo, where a lot of fighting is going on today, and the capital, Damascus. The merchant classes of the main cities, especially these two cities, are also supportive of the regime. And these merchant classes do not belong to one sect or anything. On the contrary, most of them belong to the majority Sunni sect of Syria.

    There is another layer, which is the upper middle classes and some sections of the middle class which enjoy social benefits, some economic, but some social, significantly, women in public life.

    JAY: Now, when you say "middle class", let's define that, 'cause in the United States they tend to use middle class instead of the words working class, but in some other countries middle class means professionals and such. So which way are you using?

    RAMADANI: No, no, I'm using it in the sense of the professionals here, the professional classes, lawyers, accountants, people who are in certain professions. But they are well-to-do people, yes?

    JAY: Right.

    RAMADANI: Now, the women sections of these or women members of families of these (and they are a large section of society) who do not wear the hijab have enjoyed relative freedom, socially speaking, in terms of women issues, women in public life. That is why today a lot of these women are dead against the armed opposition. They're frightened. They're frightened because of the Muslim Brotherhood and because of the Salafis and the extreme Muslim organizations and al-Qaeda. They're frightened that Saudi Arabia and Qatar are the main backers of the opposition, because, remember, Saudi society is the most brutal—and I use my words carefully—the most brutal, socially speaking, towards women in the world on planet Earth. And a lot of Syrian women fear that. They don't necessarily love this regime, but they fear the consequences of an opposition that is backed by the Saudis and the Qataris, even Turkey. The Turkish government is a Muslim Brotherhood type government, and they tend to be socially less progressive than in Syria. Okay.

    And another aspect which relates to the nature of the armed opposition which has in a way strengthened the regime is the existence of a mosaic of ethnicities—Kurds, Yazidis, Druze. These are national ethnic-type groupings.

    And you have Christians. The Christians compose 10 percent of Syria's 26 million people. Some of the churches of Syria are older than Islam itself. They belong to early Christianity. They regard themselves as the truest Christians of this world, Orthodox Christians in Aleppo, in various parts of Syria, and Homs. Aleppo has some of the oldest churches in the world. They're terrified of the armed opposition. A lot of—in Homs, there were upwards of 80,000 Christians who had to flee the city of Homs because there were a couple of massacres of Christian families in Homs.

    Add all this together, apart from the Shia and the Alawites (the Assad family belong to the Alawite, and the Alawites are a sect within a sect of the Shia sect in Syria), you get a complex picture where the nature of the armed opposition—I repeat, armed, because as we said in the beginning, there is a democratic, peaceful opposition which wants complete, radical change and true democracy in Syria; they are against the militarization—it's the armed opposition which is calling the shots today which terrifies all these sectors of the population that I have mentioned.

    JAY: So why—with this broad stratum of people who I would expect amongst even them the majority want some kind of democratic reform, certainly when you're talking ordinary people that are in this stratum that are more or less opposed to the militarization and to some extent support Assad, still, why don't they get—why don't they throw Assad under the bus? Why one family, given that there was such a broad stratum of forces on the other side, why do they hang—why does the military hang on to Assad this way?

    RAMADANI: Okay. I think if it wasn't for the militarization of the conflict, Assad would have gone long time ago. This is my own assessment of Syria, that once the demonstration started, had it not been for the militarization, I think the Syrian popular uprising would have been even greater than Egypt's. I really do believe that, because of the history of struggle for democracy in Syria, because women wanted more rights, because students wanted more rights, because of the rising unemployment, because of the privatization plans of the regime, and so on. This coalition of forces—had the peaceful uprising continued, Assad would have gone. That is my own reading. And the militarization.

    And I hear maybe some people might accuse me of being a conspiracy theorist. I think militarization of conflicts pushed on by the Saudis, Qataris, and the United States are designed to stop the democratization of these countries. They want to stop genuine democratic forces from taking over and overthrowing these dictatorships.

    JAY: Because then you might end up with a Syria that's outside all of the various spheres.

    RAMADANI: Absolutely, absolutely, because why would a decent democratically elected government hand over sovereignty of the people to a foreign power?

    JAY: Okay. Let's—we haven't talked in any detail now about Israel's interests in all this. And while they try, I think, on the Syrian issue to have somewhat of a low profile, there's no way they're not up to their eyeballs in this, one way or the other. And how is it in Israel's interests, in spite of their, you know, clear objective to try to get regime change in Iran—why is it in Israel's interests to risk forces coming to power in Syria that are far more antagonistic to Israel than Syria has been?

    RAMADANI: Well, what they are banking is on the Saudis and Qataris controlling the scene, and Turkey. If Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar succeed in bringing those forces that are paid and armed by them, then we will have a regime that will deal with Israel, that will sell the Lebanese resistance, that will sell out on the Palestinians, that will break, definitely, links with Iran. So there is a lot at stake, and Israel has thrown, I think, its weight behind that alternative.

    JAY: So they believe the more extreme Islamist forces that are entering the fray are fodder that they can control afterwards.

    RAMADANI: Yes. They might be wrong. Look at what happened in Afghanistan. But I think they are—unfortunately or fortunately, depending on the way you look at it, I think they are not wrong. I think they can control these extremists, because this time the extremists are going in, the al-Qaeda types are going in with known associations. They know who they are one by one. They came in through Turkey. They came in through Iraq. They came in through areas under U.S.-Turkish-Barzani control. So they think they can control them much, much better. And also they're arming and financing them through old associations.

    There was a big banking scandal. The HSBC, Britain's biggest bank, there was a scandal (I think it also made some headlines in the United States) where that bank was uncovered to be dealing with drug cartels and with banks that were financing al-Qaeda type terrorists in the region. So the funding for these guys is known. The arming is known. Unlike Afghanistan, they think they can control them.

    JAY: Okay. Let's—before we end this segment, let's just talk a little bit more about the oppositional forces that are not involved in the free Syrian army, what you've been calling the more democratic opposition for a peaceful protest. So what is their status now? Because now that it is militarized, there is an armed war going on, usually in these situations if you don't have guns, you don't have much to say about it.

    RAMADANI: Unfortunately that is true. That's why these democratic forces feared militarization and warned against its consequences. I have their literature very early on, last year, saying, look, if this thing goes military way, the people will suffer, the protest movement will suffer. Foreign intervention, they were predicting it will start appearing. And true enough, this is what happened.

    JAY: In fact, we saw—just I think in the last couple of days, the new president of France, Hollande, actually called openly for foreign intervention.

    RAMADANI: Yes, he did. He did. And Saudi Arabia and Qatar and so on have been obviously on the record. Turkey as well. But you are right. France became the first power to call for military-type intervention.

    United States is saying, we supply some money; and they are also saying, we're supplying communication equipment. Well, communication equipment in a war zone is war materiel. But also the CIA is obviously now—it's on the record now that the CIA is controlling who to arm and who not to harm from within Turkey. So the CIA has taken over control of who to arm and who not to arm through Turkey into Syria, and I think through Lebanon as well. This is my own—although they have not admitted Lebanon yet, I think they are also doing it through the Lebanon.

    JAY: Okay. In the next segment of our interview, we're going to talk about Russia, and to some extent China, and more about the geopolitical jigsaw puzzle in all of this. And, of course, it's the Syrian people that are caught in the middle of it all. Anyway, join us for the next part of our series of interviews with Sami Ramadani on The Real News Network. And don't forget the "Donate" button, 'cause if you don't click that, we can't do this.

    End

    DISCLAIMER: Please note that transcripts for The Real News Network are typed from a recording of the program. TRNN cannot guarantee their complete accuracy.


    Comments

    Our automatic spam filter blocks comments with multiple links and multiple users using the same IP address. Please make thoughtful comments with minimal links using only one user name. If you think your comment has been mistakenly removed please email us at contact@therealnews.com

    Comments


    Latest Stories


    The Resegregation of American Schools
    The Modern History of Venezuela, Why Still So Much Crime? - Edgardo Lander on Reality Asserts Itself (7/9)
    What Role Has Russia Played in Eastern Ukraine?
    Can Johns Hopkins Afford to Pay A Living Wage? (2/2)
    University Sit-In Targets World's Largest Private Coal Company
    The Modern History of Venezuela and the Need for a Post-Oil Economy - Edgardo Lander on RAI (6/9)
    Can Johns Hopkins Afford to Pay A Living Wage? (1/2)
    One Percent of Environmentalists Killings Lead to Convictions
    Investigation Finds Former Ukraine President Not Responsible For Sniper Attack on Protestors
    The Modern History of Venezuela from 1973 to the Caracazo Massacre - Edgardo Lander on Reality Asserts Itself (3/9)
    Ukraine Transitional Gov't Moves Militarily To Reclaim Seized Buildings
    IPCC Report Flawed By Narrow Focus on Carbon Emissions
    The Modern History of Venezuela: The Bolivarian Revolution - Edgardo Lander on Reality Asserts Itself (5/9)
    Obama Signs Directives to Reduce the Gender Wage Gap
    Eastern Ukraine Lacks Political Representation in Kiev
    Demystifying the Role of Mitigation in the Most Recent IPCC Report
    Hypersurveillance State Won't Prevent Another Boston Marathon Bombing
    The Modern History of Venezuela from 1973 to the Caracazo Massacre - Edgardo Lander on Reality Asserts Itself (3/9)
    Univ. of Maine Faculty Reinstated After Students Protest Against Cuts
    The Modern History of Venezuela from 1908 to 1973 - Edgardo Lander on Reality Asserts Itself (2/9)
    IMF Will Address Global Inequality, Says Managing Director Christine Lagarde
    Raising Big Banks' Leverage Ratio Good, But Not Nearly Enough
    TRNN Replay: Austerity Road to 19th Century
    Has Palestinian Maneuvering Revived Peace Talks?
    Late Jackson Mayor Lumumba's Son Wins Primary to Replace His Father, Runoff Election Ahead
    Quebecers Reject PQ and Elect a Liberal Government Representing Big Business
    TRNN Debate: Decriminalization vs. Legalization
    The Beginning of the Chavez Era - Edgardo Lander on Reality Asserts Itself (4/9)
    "Off With His Head": Court Upholds Obama's Power to Kill
    Workers at Nation's Top Hospital Strike For Fair Wages
    From Exile to Radicalization in Venezuela - Edgardo Lander on Reality Asserts Itself (1/9)
    Rwanda 20 Years Later: Genocide, Western Plunder of Congo, and President Kagame
    Ukrainian Protesters in the East Demand More Autonomy From Kiev Government
    Hunger Strikers Demand President Obama Halt His Record 2 Million Deportations
    Indian Parliamentary Elections - A Primer With Vijay Prashad
    West Looks to Carve Up Ukraine & Privatize Industries Held by Kleptocrats
    Where Are Israeli-Palestinian Peace Negotiations Headed?
    The Multiple Kingdoms of Saudi Arabia (5/5)
    Do the Afghan Presidential Elections Signify Progress?
    Republican Presidential Hopefuls Pay Homage to Billionaire Casino Tycoon Sheldon Adelson
    Will Extremist Lieberman Become Israel's Next Prime Minister?
    Why do the Saudis Want the US to Attack Iran? (4/5)
    Immigrant Advocates and Families Tell President Obama 'Not One More'
    Elections, Pipelines, and Protests - The Canada Panel
    Chris Hedges on "Israel's War on American Universities"
    Baltimore Residents Decry Lack of Affordable Housing
    Yellen Talks the Talk But Will She Walk the Walk?
    Hopkins Hospital Workers Speak Out against "Poverty Wages"
    Will Venezuela's New Floating Exchange Rate Curb Inflation?
    The European Central Bank's War on Wages is Pushing Europe's Economy to the Brink
    Supreme Court Decision Opens Floodgates for More Campaign Cash
    Charles Keating, the Financier Behind the Savings and Loan Scandal, Dies at 90
    Saudi Arabia and the al-Qaeda Monster (3/5)
    Maryland Residents Voice Opposition to Natural Gas Fracking Export Facility
    Supreme Court Ruling Gives Wealthy Individuals More Influence Over Elections
    What are the Saudis Afraid Of? - Madawi Al-Rasheed (2/5)
    Baltimore's MICA Adjunct Professors Set to Vote on Unionization
    Boycott of Israel Moving to Next Level?
    Hypocrisy Dressed Up as "Realism" Justifies American Alliance with Saudi Dictatorship
    Immigration Reform in the Shadows of Cesar Chavez's Legacy
    Leaked Senate Report Shows Use of Torture As "Ineffective"
    UN Report Says Climate Change Will Threaten Food Production Worldwide
    The Hypocrisy of US Calling for Enforcement of International Law
    How the Ecuadorian Economy Grew in a Global Recession
    'Shadows of Liberty' Trailer
    Kristina Borjesson on Why CBS Shut Down Her investigation into Flight 800 (2/8)
    Glen Ford on Racism in the American Media (3/8)
    Paul Jay on What Drives Corporate Media and What Drive The Real News (4/8)
    Creating a New Media Paradigm After Citizens United (5/8)
    Should The Left Engage with the Mainstream Media? (6/8)
    What Is the Financial Backing For The Real News? (7/8)
    Standing up to Character Assassination (8/8)
    Oligarchs, Fascists and the People's Protest in Ukraine
    TRNN Debate: Is Obamacare In the Interest of Workers?
    Too-Big-To-Fail Advantage Remains Intact For Big Banks
    Obama and the Saudi Agenda
    TRNN Replay: Investigating the Saudi Government's 9/11 Connection and the Path to Disilliusionment - Sen. Graham on Reality Asserts Itself pt 1
    The Iraq War's Real Legacy
    Petitions with 100,000+ Signatures Call for Snowden's Passport to be Reinstated
    We Need to Harness People Power - Andy Shallal on Reality Asserts Itself (4/4)
    BC Pipeline Fight and Quebec Elections - The Canada Panel
    Jonathan Schell - 1943-2014: Board Member of TRNN on Why We Need The Real News
    Teachers on Strike from the UK to Argentina
    Connecticut Poised to Become First State with $10.10 Minimum Wage
    Oil Spill Threatens Wildlife and Local Economy
    DC School Test Scores Up, But Poor Black Kids Are Doing Worse - Andy Shallal on RAI (3/4)
    Obama's Proposal To End NSA Bulk Data Collection Won't Protect Privacy
    How Google, Apple & The Biggest Tech Companies Colluded to Fix Workers' Wages
    An American Should be One that Questions Their Government - Andy Shallal on RAI (2/4)
    What's Driving Putin & Obama's Posturing on Ukraine?
    Hundreds of Students & Faculty Occupy College Campus to Fight Cuts to Public Higher Ed
    Due Process 'Impossible' In Harsh Death Sentencing Of Over 500 Muslim Brotherhood Members
    Has Anglo-American Capitalism Run Out of Steam?
    Being the "Other" in America - Andy Shallal on Reality Asserts Itself (1/4)
    TRNN Debate: Should Baltimore 'Ban The Box'?
    How Fallujah Became the Iraqi Government's New Battleground
    Why I Decided to Blow the Whistle on the NSA
    NASA Climate Predictions Show Serious Threat To Humanity
    Professor Who Teaches Israel-Palestine Conflict Accuses College of Violating His Academic Freedom
    CIA and NSA Wrongdoing Requires Independent Investigation, Says Former Church Committee Staff
    Are Tuition Breaks Enough To Combat High Student Debt And Low Graduation Rates?
    Industries Across the U.S. Are Stealing Wages From Their Lowest Paid Workers
    Who In Ukraine Will Benefit From An IMF Bailout?
    NSA Recording All International Calls From U.S.
    Israel "Making Lives Miserable" for Africans, Hoping They 'Self-Deport' (2/2)
    BP Gets Green Light to Drill in Gulf, But Has Safety Improved?
    Residents Still Not Drinking Tap Water Two Months After West Virginia Spill (1/2)
    Libya's Descent Into Turmoil Three Years After NATO Intervention
    From Pipelines to Peladeau - Canadian Report
    Israel "Making Lives Miserable" for Africans, Hoping They 'Self-Deport' (1/2)
    Congressional Progressive Caucus Budget Strikes Back Against Austerity
    Libya Three Years Later - Chaos and Partition
    Why Was Gaddafi Overthrown?
    Should Ukraine and West Accept De Facto Crimea Joining Russia? (2/2)
    Tony Benn Saw Socialism as the Culmination of Democratization
    Why Didn't Bush/Cheney Attack Iran and Can Obama Make and Sell a Deal? - Gareth Porter on Reality Asserts Itself (3/3)
    After Late Mayor Lumumba is Laid to Rest, What's Next for Jackson, Mississippi? (2/2)
    Crimea Referendum: Self Determination or Big Power Manipulation? (1/2)
    Sen. Graham: President Must Side with Openness About CIA and 9/11
    Manufacturing a Narrative for War - Gareth Porter on Reality Asserts Itself (2/3)
    Protesters Hit the Streets of Brooklyn to Demand $15 Minimum Wage
    Hammer: 'Moral Bankruptcy' Behind Massive GM Recall
    White House Withholds Thousands of Documents from Senate CIA Probe
    I Grew Up Believing in Time Magazine's Version of America - Gareth Porter on RAI (1/3)
    Western European Banks Vulnerable to Ukrainian Sovereign Debt Crisis
    TRNN Debate: What's Driving Inflation in Venezuela? (2/2)
    CIA vs. Senate: Who Is Obama Protecting?
    Will Tipped Workers Get Excluded Again From Minimum Wage Hike?
    TRNN Debate: What's Driving Inflation in Venezuela? (1/2)
    After Late Mayor Lumumba is Laid to Rest, What's Next for Jackson, Mississippi?(1/2)
    TRNN Replay: A Look at Who's Poised to Become No.2 at the Fed
    How Right-Wing Nationalism Rose to Influence in Ukraine (2/2)
    Netanyahu Attacks Boycott As Campaign Enters New Phase
    Moving Towards a Police State - Michael Ratner on Reality Asserts Itself (7/7)
    Fighting Reagan's Secret, Illegal Wars - Michael Ratner on Reality Asserts Itself (6/7)
    Puerto Rican Independence Movement and Cuba Further Radicalized Me - Michael Ratner on RAI (5/7)
    The Butcher of Attica - Michael Ratner on Reality Asserts Itself (4/7)
    MLK and a Radicalizing Moment in American History - Michael Ratner on Reality Asserts Itself (3/7)

    RealNewsNetwork.com, Real News Network, Real News, Real News For Real People, IWT are trademarks and service marks of IWT.TV inc. "The Real News" is the flagship show of IWT and Real News Network.

    All original content on this site is copyright of The Real News Network.  Click here for more

    Problems with this site? Please let us know

    Linux VPS Hosting by Star Dot Hosting