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Malalai Joya is an Afghan politician who has been called "the bravest woman in Afghanistan." As an elected member of the Wolesi Jirga from Farah province, she has publicly denounced the presence of what she considers warlords and war criminals in the parliament. She is the author of "A Woman Among Warlords: The Extraordinary Story of an Afghan Who Dared to Raise Her Voice"
PAUL JAY, SENIOR EDITOR, TRNN: Welcome back to The Real News Network. I'm Paul Jay, in Washington. And from our Toronto studio is Malalai Joya, a member of the National Assembly of the Parliament, you can say, in Afghanistan who's been suspended for denouncing the warlords. She's also been one of the most outspoken people for quite some time denouncing the Taliban. And as you learnt in the first segment of our interview, she would like foreign forces out of Afghanistan now. Thanks for joining us again, Malalai.MALALAI JOYA, AUTHOR, A WOMAN AMONG WARLORDS: Thank you.JAY: Malalai, why do you think the United States continues to have troops in Afghanistan and is poised to increase the footprint of the occupation?JOYA: It has three reasons. First, they occupied my country because of geopolitical location of Afghanistan, my country, located in the heart of the Asia. When they will have their grip in Afghanistan, very easily they can control China, Russia, Iran, Pakistan, India, etc., and then they will have, very easily, access to the gas and oil of the Central Asian republics. And the third reason, because after arms and oil trade in the war, they are receiving millions of dollars by dirty business of opium. This was the main project of the CIA, that they changed Afghanistan to the center of drug by support of these drug lord. So, for example, since 2001 until now, 4,500 percent opium increase. And every year, through dirty process of opium, $500 million alone goes into the pocket of Taliban. Even New York Times gave report recently, brother of Hamid Karzai, Ahmed Wali Karzai, that my people call him a "small Bush" in Kandahar, that he is a famous drug trafficker in the payroll of the CIA, receiving millions of dollar by CIA. Why Canada government, first of all, who have troops and follow the strong policy of the US government, do not raise their voice against that? In many example like this today, by presence of thousands troops in Kabul, we do not have security. The UN office recently has been attacked in the safest place of Kabul, by presence of thousands troops. Millions of Afghan, [that] they suffer from insecurity, injustice, corruption, joblessness, poverty in this eight years is enough to know better, US government and NATO, about the wrong policy. Now they put soft name on Taliban, these terrorist people, as a "moderate" and a fascist man like name Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, to have a reason, through mainstream media to you, that to bring these Taliban also means Mullah Omar and also Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, who hasname is in the blacklist of the UN, into power. Now situation will be more disaster, more bloody, especially for the women, if these two terrorists also come in power.JAY: Now, we read in the press that India is very concerned that if the United States pulls out of Afghanistan, that Pakistan, that traditionally has actually backed the Taliban in Afghanistanand, in fact, when I was in Afghanistan, many people I spoke to, even in Kandahar, saw the Taliban at that time as more an extension of the Pakistani ISIIndia is very concerned that if the foreign troops pull out of Afghanistan, Pakistan will support the Taliban and bring the Taliban back to power as an extension of the influence of Pakistan. Is that a legitimate concern? And what do you make of that?JOYA: These warlord, as I told you, that since Cold War they got support of the CIA, ISI, Saudi Arabistan, Russia, etc.not Russia on that time that, of course, all together fighted against Russia. Only puppet of Russia ["HAL-kin-PAD-shay-mee"], they had their support. But Taliban, when these warlords come in power, when Russia felled in Afghanistan, as I told you, they were product of the mainly CIA and ISI. They did civil war in Afghanistan. During that time, Taliban has been created, CIA supported them, that brainwash in religious school of ISI by support of Saudi Arabistan. And when Taliban come in power, again my people become hopeful that maybe Taliban is better than these criminal mujahedin, these a bunch of killer. While most of people arereal mujahedin, they call them mujahedin because they were freedom-loving fighter against occupation of Russia. But the criminal mujahedin, only this bunch of warlord who I told you right now also they are in power, they have high post. When Taliban come in power, people thought maybe they are better than criminal mujahedin. But after 9/11. Five years they imposed on my people. They had their foreign support, and their foreign masters supported them. But when they did 9/11 tragedy, again their domination has been destroyed. And instead, to be honest for my people, US government and NATO, they brought back in power these warlords who become micewhen Taliban come in power, skip in their holes. [inaudible] mice become wolf. And still they are wolf in the the skin of lambs, deceiving people around [inaudible] That's why situation getting disaster. And these Taliban and warlord, they are just a bunch of killer. There are bunch of name full of the shame in the history of my country. My people hate them.JAY: Malalai, what exactly would you like to see next? 'Cause in one of the interviews I read, you said you wanted to see the disarming of the warlords. But who's going to disarm the warlords?JOYA: You know, first it was the alternative that I requested, that really if Mr. Obama honest for my people. No question that after 9/11 we need helping hand, but it never means we want occupation. They occupy. But what I ask from Mr. Obama first, in the occupation, he must say apologies to my people for the war crime of criminal Bush. But, unfortunately, his foreign policy's quite similar like criminal Bush. And second, he must stop arming the warlords, not negotiate with Taliban.JAY: I want to get concrete about this. In your view of things, before the foreign forces were to leave, do you want them to disarm the warlords? Or do you want the foreign forces to get out?JOYA: Of course we want them to get out, as they are not honest. But to stop arming means, for example, Barack Obamathis is fresh example. US government raised the voice, even mainstream media (maybe you got that), they exposed Abdul Rashid Dostum, this wanted criminal. But when during the election he's coming, why they even do not say single word against him? Why they do not raise their voice?JAY: But Dostum was one of their most important allies after 9/11. I mean, American forces we know are allied with all of these people that had previously been accused of committing war crimes. Dostum was one of them. But what I'm asking you is, if you want the US and foreign troops out, do you want them to disarm these warlord armies?JOYA: No, no, not disarm. One is "disarmed"; one is "stop arming". Disarmed? They were not honest. They did not disarm. They armed these warlords this eight years. Photocopy of Taliban. That's why they're powerful. When I'm saying "stop arming" means stop support them, not negotiate with Taliban. For an alternative, I have, first, if really Mr. Obama honest for my people, end occupation. Second, stop arming. It means stop support the warlords, not negotiate with Taliban under the name of "moderate". We have no moderate Taliban. How they recognize this terrorist is moderate and that one is not? In the meantime, they never say apologies my people, at least. Third alternative, support democratic-minded, justice-loving people of my country while we have a lot. Give them chance, and instead that supporting more of these warlord. The fourth alternative, together with UN they must stop neighbor countries like Iran, Pakistan, Russia, Uzbekistan, etc., who support Taliban, and also warlords. But they are not honest for us. Only this point is enough that medieval-minded, ignorant Taliban almost destroyed opium. On that time in 2001, it was 185 metric ton. But now a superpower country with 14 more countries this eight years not possible to destroy opium? Just they play with the destiny of my people. They've changed my country to their playground, whilst again my people put the name of this so-called war on terror, this is just a "game of Tom and Jerry".JAY: Malalai, what would support for what you're calling justice-loving or democratic forces in Afghanistan, what would that support look like? What concretely do you want to happen?JOYA: Yeah. Of course, we need for them support, because still they are underground support: educationally support through them to my people, innocent, most of non-educated people of my country, that many time they showed their love to democracy. They're coming outside. They do demonstration that most of them are not educated, and if they have education, they play their role much better than today. These women, every man thinks of, woman commits suicide. When these girls get raped, they kill themselves. If they are [inaudible] they will be educated, then they never do that. But the problem is that your government has some humanitarian project there, but under the name of humanitarian project, they occupied Afghanistan, because $36 billion they raised to the government of Hamid Karzai.JAY: If the foreign forces pull out tomorrow, there will be a fight between the Taliban and the warlords, and amongst the warlords. Within that kind of situation, what foreign supportwhat can the outside countries do in that situation?JOYA: Yeah. I told you that you [inaudible] foreign troops tomorrow on behalf of my people. I am telling them now, because our history showed we never accept occupation.JAY: No, I understand that. So let's say, if they pulled out in five minutes, Malalai, you would have a fight between the warlords and the Taliban, no?JOYA: Yeah, but let me tell you, my brother, one second. But my people hate the warlord, I told you, and Taliban. But the problem is that the US government and NATO do not let us a little bit breathe in peace. People do not support them. Karzai's regime is good example how much it is weak. And they are, day by day, getting more powerful. At least we are fighting one enemy instead of two. I say today still face civil war. As long as these troops be in Afghanistan, the worse civil war will be, because in the meantime they're increasing the resistance of the people. I told you, in these eight years, less than 2,000 Taliban has been killed, more than 8,000 innocent people. People are able to fight the terrorists, these terrorists. But if the US government and NATO let us a little bit breathe in peace. But when I want the withdrawal of the troops on behalf of my people. But my request to the people of these country, as people of the US, to the people of Canada, around the world, because huge difference between the people and wrong policymakersthey are the one who must join their hands with us, especially human rights organizations. Moral support, and also financial support, especially educational support, of them we need for our people, not for this corrupt system. Also, huge difference between the wrong policymakers and good policymakers who are in power. My message to the democrat member of the parliaments, congressmen and women, and also to democrat politician, men and women, is that the silence of the good people is worse than the action of bad people. They are the one who must put pressure on their government that they stop this wrongdoing, that much my people fed up now. They say, "We don't expect anything good from you. Just stop wrongdoing."JAY: Thanks very much for joining us, Malalai.JOYA: Yeah, thank you. Thanks for your support.JAY: And thank you for joining us on The Real News Network.DISCLAIMER:Please note that TRNN transcripts are typed from a recording of the program; The Real News Network cannot guarantee their complete accuracy.
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