Paul Jay speaks with Ali Noorani about the battle over immigration reform, and the economic significance of immigration in the US.
BioAli Noorani is Executive Director of the National Immigration Forum, one of the country’s preeminent pro-immigrant advocacy organizations. Before coming to Washington in 2008, Noorani was Executive Director of the Massachusetts Immigrant and Refugee Advocacy Coalition (MIRA), where he tripled its staff and programs. Prior, he worked on a variety of community health and social justice issues, including HIV/AIDS, youth development, and environmental justice. Noorani has been a guest on a number of local and national radio and television shows including, National Public Radio, Fox Radio, CNN, MSNBC, NBC News, the O'Reilly Factor, and Fox News. He has been quoted in the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Los Angeles Times, Boston Globe, and Washington Post. Born in California to Pakistani immigrants, Noorani is one of the nation’s few leaders of Muslim heritage. He is a graduate of the University of California at Berkeley and received his Master's in Public Health from Boston University, where he received the University's Young Alumni Award in 2007. Comments from Registered Members | (Register or log in to make your comment.) | ginge51 2009-10-15
What will happen in America now after these reforms is what has been happening in the U.k for the last 5 years.
All these 'lovly immergrants', will come to America and find work.
When like there is now, when there is hardly any jobs available.
All these immergrants will get jobs.
And YOU AMAERICANS will not find work i guarentee you.
I'm from the U.K and have been unemployed now for 11 months.
I've tried getting work believe me, but it is very hard.
If this influx of emergents did not happen, i would be working now.
But seeing how it happened.
It will not.
So basically, Americans will be out of work, whilst some emergents snatch your jobs.
And there is not a thing you will be able to do about it.
As it falls on deaf ears.
Soon there will be no American people left in America.
Just like soon there will be no English people left in England.
I hope, for the sake of America.
They do not get reforms.
It's downhill, believe me. | Wildlander 2009-10-14
All in all, the hispanics responding here pretty much proved my case in the anti-American sentiment they have posted here. Even while living and profiting from their life here in the US. | Wildlander 2009-10-14
Decembre, at least your comment to me was a bit civil. The problem is there are so many hispanics that it creates an economic supply and demand. Too high a supply of labor. And when supply is high prices go down. So the hispanics by their sheer numbers are the ones driving down the pay of agricultural jobs. | gegenwarst 2009-10-14
"Divide and Conquer" is the motto. Americans are so stupid and unable to visualize that the dollar is going to collapse pretty soon and a new currency will be put into place affecting Canada, Mexico and the US; thus, there won't be a necessity to legalize millions of undocumented Mexicans living in the US (about 20+ million), since a common currency will imply deep structural changes in the systems of these three nations. The only ones who will need to adjust their status are the foreigners who don't belong to this common market (about 4+ million). That's why immigration attorneys are so desperate for a reform ASAP - lot's of money to make before the dollar collapses. | Wildlander 2009-10-14
"How appropriate.. this Wildlander... studies German?? Perhaps would do better to learn to read, write and speak English before trying to mangle another language.. perhaps a typical, but nonetheless tiresome US characteristic... illiterate in one's native tongue. Amusing to me is the reality that the lands once stolen//taken by force from Mexico will be turned back to Hispanics (with a bonus of much of the rest of the country as well!).. very shortly without firing a shot.. at the ballot box.. ain't democracy grand? I can't wait... learning Spanish might be wiser Mr. Wildperson.."
Sorry CanamJay, no time to learn Spanish. I am too busy learning how to sharp shoot gophers (otherwise known as spics) running across our fields. Also, I might point out your first sentence is incomplete (you forgot the subject "he"). And how about that sentence that beings with "Amusing to me..." It is quite apparent you are the illiterate one here. Very likely a spic too. Time to go shooting. | Ganesha 2009-10-14
How else would I run my landscaping business? White people don't know how to take care of plants | decembre 2009-10-14
You blame the immigrants but nobody blames the american that use them as slaves ou almost. Why aren't the american employers of these illegals sent to jail ? | Brittanicus 2009-10-14
Soon America is going to be confronted with another out-of-control AMNESTY for the 20 to 30 million illegal aliens already here. This is not taking into account the millions who will follow on, once the word gets out through Central and South America and the rest of the world. Only the armed National Guard on our lax border will be able to stop the incursion of the destitute, the sick, drug dealers, slavers, foreign terrorists and a multitude other entering this country illegally. The church, unions, the Communist ACLU, US Chamber of Commerce, Council of Foreign Relations and radical, International groups all have their agendas. These Anti-sovereignty organizations must embrace there corrupted puppet politicians, that ostensibly wants to make this cataclysm come true?
The driving force now behind this contradiction to his oath of Allegiance to American people is Rep.Luis Gutierrez's of Illinois, whose immigration enforcement since being in office is a (F-) grading according to NUMB | shebear2009 2009-10-14
The biggest problem with immigration today is the enormous number of immigrants coming into the US - much too fast to be absorbed gracefully, and creating a threat to native Americans by accepting work for lower wages, thus undermining the ability of Americans to make a living wage. This inclues legal immigrants, illegal immigrants, AND foreign visa workers. Reduce the numbers. Americans do like immigrants, but they want LESS IMMIGRANTS. | peterg 2009-10-14
Whooaaa. Calm down, man, and please remain civil. You have the freedom to rant, but if you're going to do so, at least address some of the issues he raises. It seems like you haven't bothered listening to him or any potential solutions he proposed. | Canamjay 2009-10-14
How appropriate.. this Wildlander... studies German?? Perhaps would do better to learn to read, write and speak English before trying to mangle another language.. perhaps a typical, but nonetheless tiresome US characteristic... illiterate in one's native tongue. Amusing to me is the reality that the lands once stolen//taken by force from Mexico will be turned back to Hispanics (with a bonus of much of the rest of the country as well!).. very shortly without firing a shot.. at the ballot box.. ain't democracy grand? I can't wait... learning Spanish might be wiser Mr. Wildperson.. | Swansen 2009-10-14
wow... i think wildlander pretty much hit the nail on the head there. Nearly all illegals send their money back home, killing economy. Simply, this isn't the land of opportunity it once was, if you want to get into the states, you should have the requirements needed to get anywhere else, real skills, or real education, its that simple. Or a job already lined up ahead of moving. Its killing the people BORN HERE. | Wildlander 2009-10-14
You can bet he is funded by the agricultural industry to spew his lies and rhetoric.
The issue is not immigration though that is what this unethical bastard hides behind. If we allowed 10,000 Germans to immigrate each year, 10,000 Ukranians to immigrate each year, 10,000 Ethiopians to immigrate each year... then fine. Everything in moderation. But what we have here is MILLIONS of hispanics flooding over the border! It happens all along the Calif. border. All along the Arizona border. It happens all along the Texas border. Such a large influx has real repercussions that this bastard just ignores and otherwise refuses to acknowledge. | Wildlander 2009-10-14
Continued....
Now lets talk about overpopulation. Hispanics come from a culture of very large families. This is largely a result of the primarily Catholic Religion ("be fruitful and multiply") which they take very seriously. Secondly because of the need for population replacement because of high death rates in the home cultures (whether disease or violence). Now, we are trying to help these countries with their disease and crime (drug growing, etc) but that does not relieve the real issues we experience here in America when they come swarming over the border. Even Jay acknowledges the many, many people "waiting for the sun to go down". | Wildlander 2009-10-14
Continued...
Here in Yakima, Washington (about as far north as you can get in the continental US outside of Alaska), nearly 75 percent of all violent and serious crime is by hispanics who have both legally and illegally immigrated to the US. In addition, MOST of the gangs are hispanic - over 90 percent. The only reason the other gangs formed is because they were forced too (it was unsafe to be white and walk down the city streets because of the culture of hispanics gangs brought to America).
And what about legal immigrants. That is a lie too. What you have in fact is dual citizen ship. And when things are good here they such our economy dry. But when things get bad, say for example a need for soldiers in the military, suddenly they flood back to their home countries and give up their American Citizenship. They are here to rip us off and no other reason. | Wildlander 2009-10-14
Continued...
The difference between Germans and others immigrating 100 years ago is that is was not so easy to get back to your home country (in the event they were unhappy here). And so their was extreme pressure to conform to the norms of society... including speaking English. This asshole complete ignores this and other issues. Hispanics have no need to conform. Why, because they can so easily go back home to their native country. | Wildlander 2009-10-14
Continued....
So now our agencies and companies have to hire bilingual (emphasis "bi" meaning English and Hispanic) spanish speaking employees. And so whites lose out on those jobs (example, I chose to learn German as a second language and cannot compete for these jobs). The massive hispanic immigration is dictating what secondary language our children learn in high school which is just plain bullshit. School is about learning a diversity of cultures not kissing ass to one south of the border. | Wildlander 2009-10-14
Continued....
You think there is no cost there? Bullshit... it costs real money to hire bilingual employees... such jobs that largely push white europeans aside because they do not qualify for the jobs. And so hispanics are making room for themselves at the expense of the founding whites of this country. 100 years ago, Germans were FORCED to learn English. If they didn't, they could not make it. And it is a fact that a nation is far more efficient with one language to facilitate proper communication. A standard. Like any other rules and procedures to maximize productivity and efficiency. If you make room for the hispanic language in our culture (increasing the cost of everything) then why not Russian, German... soon we have to hire 20 tellers at the bank so that all the languages are covered. Otherwise it is nothing more than discrimination against these others. And so the costs go up and up and up. | Wildlander 2009-10-14
Continued....
MOST of the illegals that pick apples here in Washington State make their money and then send it or take it back to their homes south of the border. They suck the money out of our economy by taking dollars to other countries. Secondly, they take jobs that should pay minimum wage. You say Hispanics are taking jobs white americans will not? What a phucking lie. Stop by your local McDonalds or Burger King. Minimum wage. Mostly white college kids trying to get by. Many would prefer to work outdoors instead of behind a hot grill in the summer. And why aren't they? Because hispanics have flooded the agricultural work force and the supply and demand results in unethical and illegal below-minimum wages. And it is RESULT of the massive numbers of hispanics driving the whole decay of our country. | Wildlander 2009-10-14
Continued...
There are THOUSANDS of real issues. Here is one that is relatively low in importance but a real problem if you intend to have a quality of life - in this case enjoy fishing. In Washington State we have catch and release trout fishing waters. The illegal hispanics come in and catch a mess of fish and kill them. The fish the lakes empty. The game warden stops them. But what can he do??? The hispanic and the warden both know the hispanic has no resoruces to pay a fine. And the state will not put them in jail for this crime because it costs exorbant amounts of money to put people in jail - something like $250 a night in the local jails (cost of guards, cost of jail facilities, food, legal council they get for 'free' though the state pays for it... or I should say the taxes you pay). And so the warden writes them a ticket knowing they will never pay it. And having no permanent residence, can never be found again. Now this is an issue about hispanics on American quality |
PAUL JAY, SENIOR EDITOR, TRNN: Welcome back to The Real News Network in San Francisco at the Momentum Conference of Tides Foundation. Now joining us is Ali Noorani. He's the executive director of the National Immigration Forum, one of the country's preeminent pro-immigrant advocacy organizations. Tell us a little bit of what your organization does, how you're funded, and then we'll get into it. ALI NOORANI, EXEC. DIRECTOR, NATIONAL IMMIGRATION FORUM: Well, thank you very much for having me. The National Immigration Forum has been around since 1982. We're an organization whose mission is to advocate for the value of immigrants and immigration to the nation. We do coalition work, communications work, legislative work, and we're supported by a number of foundations who believe that immigrants and immigration are a fundamental part of our country.JAY: Okay. So this is, like, one of the hot-button debates that goes on in this country. And we're hearing it now all about health care, that this health-care reform is going to pay for the illegals—"Why should I pay for the illegals?"—which I guess, one, isn't very true. But there is this deep wellspring of this feeling of a kind of "You're taking my country away." So talk about what you're running up against and what are the big issues facing immigrants to the United States.NOORANI: Well, really, since 2004, I mean, you can give Bush a lot of credit for actually starting this debate around immigration reform. In January 2004, he said, "I want to fix the immigration system." So almost every six months since that point in time we've been having this debate in a very, very public and visceral way. And the opposition bases their argument on cultural factors, on economic factors. And the reality is what they want is the status quo. They want to make sure that immigrants and people of color are over there and they're over here. They want to make sure that there is a two-tier workforce. On the other hand, that minority, that very, very loud minority, is not going to carry the day. I mean, we've been dealing with them, the immigration-rights, the immigrant-rights community's been dealing with this, this vocal minority, for years. And it's clear they can scream very loud, but they really have no power in the voting booth, no power in the voting booth.JAY: The focus of that community is on the illegals, and I've yet to hear a really well-articulated policy from this administration or from the Democratic Party on what really should be the policy towards the illegals.NOORANI: Well, we feel that, as the Campaign to Reform Immigration for America, we need to do—comprehensive immigration reform needs to include a number of things. First and foremost is to require the undocumented population to legalize their status, require them to become legal, learn English, and then get on a path to citizenship. That's number one. Number two, establish an immigration system that people can actually go through. At this point, for example, there are only 5,000 low-skill work visas in the country—only 5,000. If you have such a limited supply of work visas for the low-skill worker, of course people are going to go around it, of course employers are going to go around it. So the second thing is we need to establish an immigration system that actually meets the needs of our work force and our labor force. Third, we need to make sure that our family immigration system is protected and that families are reunified. You do those three fundamental things and you make sure that people will have access to due process and basic civil rights, then you have a system that can actually be enforced.JAY: Okay. But the devil is in the detail of those three things, especially number one, this question of paths to citizenship. I mean, you have a range of reforms, including from, you know, some of the Republicans, like McCain, who said, "Yeah, let's have reform, but let's send everybody home, and then we can bring them back again." I mean, that's where the battle is.NOORANI: But what we're finding at this point in time, polling, both local district polling and national polling, is that the majority of Americans, the majority of voters, want to see reform that requires legalization, that requires people to learn English, and then puts them on a path to citizenship.JAY: So talk about the political leadership of the Democratic Party, because if that's true that the majority of Americans want this—and you can say the same thing about health-care reform. Poll after poll says not only do the majority of Americans want a public option; there's many polls have shown people actually want a single-payer government insurance plan. But where is the leadership?NOORANI: Leadership is critical. I mean, the president has done a pretty good job on immigration. Each step along the way since he's been elected, since he came into office, he's made the right statement. This is going to come down into a battle in the House and the Senate. The Democratic leadership—Pelosi in the house, Reid and Schumer in the Senate—are they going to in essence whip their majorities? Pelosi has a much easier job. She has a strong majority, and she can move a bill, and the rules are tighter. In the Senate, Senator Schumer has to be able to find, thread the needle between legalization and future flow and enforcement to hold a majority of Democrats and get a number of Republicans. It's going to be harder in the Senate. But there is Democratic leadership in the Senate from Schumer and Reid and Durbin as well as Republican leadership. You have Lindsey Graham who voted for [Sonia] Sotomayor, who has a history of supporting immigration reform. He realizes that it's good public policy and it's good politics to be serving the immigrant community by moving immigration reform. The problem is that the rest of the Republican Party that is incredibly happy ranting and raving about immigrants and immigration, (A) it's bad policy to just maintain the status quo and (B) it is bad politics.JAY: Well, certainly with the changing demographic of America, it might be the death of their politics.NOORANI: If they ever want to be back in power, they have to rein back the Hispanic and the immigrant vote.JAY: In this discourse, I've always thought there's something important missing coming from the advocates of immigration reform is that so much of—and I'm telling you something you know, but so much of what's called "illegal immigration" was actually invited immigration. I know in 1991 I stood on the Tijuana border as something like 1,000 people were about to run across at night, and there was popcorn machines and hot dogs being sold—it was practically a celebration waiting for the sun to come down. Look across the other side, on the American side of the border, there's nobody there, there's no officers, because it was harvest season in California.NOORANI: In '91. Right.JAY: Yeah. And there was a tap that was turned on: when we need a lot of cheap labor, we're turning the tap on; when we don't, we turn it off. And the role of American governments at the state level, civic level, and companies in wanting this flow—and it doesn't get talked about that much.NOORANI: One of our biggest problems as advocates is when we say, as advocates, immigrants are doing jobs Americans won't do. That's fundamentally wrong in many, many ways, and it's right in other ways. Americans will do jobs that pay good wages, that protect them in the workplace, that they can reach the American dream. Immigrants will do the same jobs. The problem is is that with an immigration system that is so fundamentally broken and that just allows and invites an undocumented workforce, an American never has a chance to compete for that job, and an undocumented immigrant who takes that job never has a chance to achieve the American dream, 'cause their wages are pushed down, they have no rights in the workplace. So we have to fix the immigration system so that everybody can compete for the same job at the same wage, so then an American can decide, "I'm going to move from Indiana, and I'm going to go to California and pick lettuce," or they can decide, "You know what? I'm going to stay in Indiana because this is my home, and I'm going to, you know, benefit from the added productivity and purchasing power of the immigrant community." So it's a balance we have not achieved because our politicians would rather rant and rave about this than fix the problem.JAY: Every so often you see there's this kind of moment where you have these massive demonstrations, especially in the Hispanic community, and then it dissipates. And, you know, one would think now is the time, and particularly as the economic crisis deepens and unemployment raises, it gets higher, you know, sooner than later there's going to be more of this kind of racist anti-immigrant backlash as there's less and less jobs. But where is the movement?NOORANI: The movement at this point is incredibly strong. Going into the 2008 elections, millions of people registered to vote and went to the polls for the first time. But at this point—. So let's look at August 2009. The media was talking about health care. There were, you know, 100, 200, 300 events around health care. The immigrant community, faith leadership, labor leadership, community leadership, organized over 110 events across the country in August, saying we want comprehensive immigration reform. So we may be talking about health care, but there is an infrastructure and a drumbeat happening for immigration reform. So once this health-care issue is resolved, we're next in queue. And the president is doing all the right things, lining up ducks; Pelosi is, Reid is, Schumer is; so that as we end to the end of 2009, beginning of 2010, the movement will be at a place where we can win the legislative battle.JAY: What seems to be the defensive character of the administration in the face of even the town halls, this kind of drumbeat from the far right? Does it give you some pause about what you might expect when you're next in queue?NOORANI: We've been dealing with that, the far right wing that went after Van Jones, that went after members of Congress in town halls for the last five years. They can't do much more that would be a surprise. One thing that they do have is more money. You know, they have the money to run television ads. They have Glenn Beck, they have Lou Dobbs, they have Bill O'Reilly ranting about this every single night. But in spite of having those same weapons for the last five years, they still lost 20 out of 22 competitive House and Senate races in 2008, they still wasted $27 million on anti-immigrant attack ads in those elections, and they still lost 44 electoral votes in the presidential election. So that opposition, they're going to be just as loud, they're going to be louder and uglier when immigration comes up. And we're going to be ready, you know, because we are ready to win, 'cause we've done the work that'll get us to win.JAY: Talk just finally a little bit of the role of the media in the last few months and on this issue.NOORANI: I think the media—it's great to see there's a little more balance within cable news. I mean, MSNBC, I think, has really emerged as a voice for progressive and liberal issues in pushing back against Dobbs and Fox News. I think that's reassuring. I think our challenge is going to be getting our spokespeople out there and providing them the confidence and the strength and the messages, so that at the end of the day it's not the advocate making the case, it is the American on the street saying, "You know what? I want to fix the immigration system, because then, you know, my neighbor has legal status, they're protected by the law, my community is safer. And you know what? It's not a competition for low-wage job; it is a competition for a high-wage job."JAY: I mean, part of engaging the far right in debate all the time, which is what cable news does on the whole—same thing that happened on climate change: you never get to debate the solutions to climate change; you've got to debate: is there climate change? And when they constantly frame the debate on cable news with, you know, the most racist element, you know, debating someone who's for immigration reform, and you don't get to debate solutions—.NOORANI: But the debate is really in my mind boiled down to you want the status quo: try to find and deport 12 million people and spend over $200 billion. Or do we want to change the status quo, legalize people, bring in $66 billion in tax revenue, $1.4 trillion in spending, $651 million in terms of productivity? What do you want? The status quo to tear apart families and ruin our bottom line? Or keep families together and—?JAY: Really quickly, the litmus test for you on whether immigration reform is real or papered.NOORANI: Legalization, family protections, and due process—I think those three things have to be in there. We can have a conversation about what future flow needs to be and what enforcement needs to be, but if you don't legalize and fix this, the situation for 12 million people in this country, we are going to continue to suffer.JAY: Thanks for joining us.NOORANI: Thank you.JAY: Thanks for joining us on The Real News Network.DISCLAIMER:Please note that TRNN transcripts are typed from a recording of the program; The Real News Network cannot guarantee their complete accuracy. |
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